Q1) What will you be doing with this PC? Be as specific as possible, and include specific games or programs you will be using.**
A1) This will be a dedicated NAS system for my home network. As such, I'm looking to have it:
- Host ##TB's of 720, 1080 & up resolution Movies and TV Shows I'm about to begin ripping from a MASSIVE DVD & Blueray collection I have.
- My kids are big on Minecraft. I understand it's possible to host your own "worlds" (or whatever they call the maps you can build) on your own "server". I think it would be pretty neat to offer them (& their friends - if can be done 'safely/securely') their own partition on one of my NAS HDD's.
- I also have accounts with a couple diff VPN companies... I understand it's possible (?) to sync said VPN's with a NAS, this might be a more relative topic on the next point/purpose...
- I'd like to be able to remotely link to this NAS for when I travel overseas and want to stream at my temp location from my house/this NAS.
Q2) What is your maximum budget before rebates/shipping/taxes?**
* A2) Here's where I make matters more complicated than most others would... I've been an advocate for Bitcoin and crypto-currencies in general since 2013. I invested in a small mining outfit back in 2014 (strictly Bitcoin/ASIC's). One of my buddies is the President of a large-scale mining operation (foreign and domestic) and he convinced me to dabble in the GPU mining-space. I made my first hardware purchase in Q4, 2017 and launched a small-scale GPU-Farm in my house since then. I had the rigs mining up until Q3 of 2018 (not cost-efficient to keep on, especially living in SoFlo) and since then, the hardware's been collecting dust (& pissing off my family members since they lost access to 3X rooms in the house - I won't let anyone go near my gear). One of my New Years Resolutions for 2019 was to clear out the house of all my mining equipment so that's all about to go up on eBay. So "budget" is relative to whatever I "MUST" spend if I can't repurpose any of the parts I already have on hand for this build... (Anyone having something I "need" and is looking to barter for one of the items I'll list later on in here, LMK).
Q3) When do you plan on building/buying the PC? Note: beyond a week or two from today means any build you receive will be out of date when you want to buy.**
A3) IMMEDIATELY! :)
Q4) What, exactly, do you need included in the budget? (ToweOS/monitokeyboard/mouse/etc\)**
A4) Well I had a half-assed idea approximately 1 year ago that it might be wise to build a bunch of 'gaming rigs' to sell on eBay with my intended repurposed mining hardware so I went on a shopping spree for like 6 months. That said; I've got a plethora of various other components that aren't even unboxed yet. 90% of the items I've purchased for this additional project were items that were marked down via MIR (mail-in-rebates) & what-not...
AFAIK, there are only 3X items I absolutely do not have which I 'MUST' find. Those would be - 1) Motherboard which accepts "ECC RAM". 2) CPU for said MOBO. 3) Said "ECC RAM".\*
Q5) Which country (and state/province) will you be purchasing the parts in? If you're in US, do you have access to a Microcenter location?**
A5) I'm located in Southwest Florida. No Microcenter's here. Best Buy is pretty much my only option although I am a member of Newegg, Amazon & Costco if that makes any difference?
Q6) If reusing any parts (including monitor(s)/keyboard/mouse/etc), what parts will you be reusing? Brands and models are appreciated.**
A6) In an attempt to better clean up this Q&A, I'm going to list the items I have on-hand at the end of this questionnaire in-case passers-by feel like this might be a TLDR.* (Scroll to the bottom & you'll see what I mean).
Q7) Will you be overclocking? If yes, are you interested in overclocking right away, or down the line? CPU and/or GPU?**
A7) I don't think that's necessary for my intended purpose although - I'm not against it if that helps & FWIW, I'm pretty skilled @ this task already (it's not rocket science).
Q8) Are there any specific features or items you want/need in the build? (ex: SSD, large amount of storage or a RAID setup, CUDA or OpenCL support, etc)**
A8) As stated in A4; ECC RAM is non-negotiable... RAID seems like a logical application here as well.
- This will predominantly be receiving commands from MacOS computers. I don't think that matters really but figured it couldn't hurt to let you guys know.\*
- I'd also be quite fond of implementing "PFSENSE" (or something of that caliber) applied to this system so I could give my Netgear Nighthawks less stress in that arena, plus my limited understanding of PFSENSE is that it's ability to act as a firewall runs circles around anything that comes with consumer-grade Wi-Fi routers (like my Nighthawks). Just the same, I'm open to building a second rig just for the firewall.\*
- Another desirable feature would be that it draws as little electricity from the wall as possible. (I'm EXTREMELY skilled in this arena. I have "Kill-A-Watts" to test/gauge on, as well as an intimate understanding of the differences between Silver, Gold, Platinum and Titanium rated PSU's. As well as having already measured each of the PSU's I have on-hand and taken note of the 'target TDP draw' ("Peak Power Efficiency Draw") each one offers when primed with X amount of GPU's when I used them for their original purpose.\*
- Last, but not least, sound (as in noise created from the rig). I'd like to prop this device up on my entertainment center in the living room. I've (almost) all of the top-shelf consumer grade products one could dream of regarding fans and other thermal-related artifacts.
- Almost forgot; this will be hosting to devices on the KODI platform (unless you guys have better alternative suggestions?)
Q9) Do you have any specific case preferences (Size like ITX/microATX/mid-towefull-tower, styles, colors, window or not, LED lighting, etc), or a particular color theme preference for the components?**
A9) Definitely! Desired theme would be WHITE. If that doesn't work for whatever reason, black or gray would suffice. Regarding "Case Size". Nah, that's not too important although I don't foresee a mini-ITX build making sense if I'm going to be cramming double digit amounts of TB in the system, Internal HDD's sounds better than a bunch of externals plugged in all the USB ports.
Q10) Do you need a copy of Windows included in the budget? If you do need one included, do you have a preference?**
A10) I don't know. If I do need a copy of Windows, I don't have one so that's something I'll have to consider I guess. I doubt that's a necessity though.
______________________ **Extra info or particulars:*\
AND NOW TO THE FUN-STUFF... Here's a list of everything (PARTS PARTS PARTS) I have on-hand and ready to deploy into the wild &/or negotiate a trade/barter with:
Corsair Carbide Series Air 540 Arctic White (Model# Crypto-Currency-9011048-WW) - (Probably my top pick for this build).
Cooler Master HAF XB EVO (This is probably my top 1st or 2nd pick for this build, the thing is a monster!).
Cooler Master Elite 130 - Mini ITX - Black
Cooler Master MasterBox 5 MID-Tower - Black & White
Raidmax Sigma-TWS - ATX - White
MasterBox Lite 5 - ATX - Black w/ diff. Colored accent attachments (included with purchase)
NZXT S340 Elite Matte White Steel/Tempered Glass Edition
EVGA DG-76 Alpine White - Mid Tower w/ window
EVGA DG-73 Black - Mid Tower w/ window (I have like 3 of these)
______________________ CPU's - ***7TH GEN OR BELOW INTEL's ("Code Name Class mentioned next to each one)**\
* Pentium G4400 (Skylake @54W TDP) - Intel ARK states is "ECC CAPABLE" Celeron G3930 (Kaby Lake @ 51W TDP) - Intel ARK states is "ECC CAPABLE" :)
i5 6402P (Skylake @65W TDP) - Intel ARK states is "NOT ECC CAPABLE" :(
i5 6600k (Skylake @ 91W TDP) - Intel ARK states is "NOT ECC CAPABLE" :(
i7 6700 (Skylake @ 65W TDP) - Intel ARK states is "NOT ECC CAPABLE" :(
i7 7700k (Kaby Lake @ 95W TDP) - Intel ARK states is "NOT ECC CAPABLE" :(
***8TH GEN INTEL's **\
* i3-8350K (Coffee Lake @91W TDP) - Intel ARK states is "ECC FRIENDLY" :)
I5-8600K (Coffee Lake @95W TDP) - Intel ARK states is "NOT ECC CAPABLE" :(
***AMD RYZEN's **\
Ryzen 3 2200G
Ryzen 5 1600
Ryzen 7 1700X
______________________ MOTHERBOARDS -
***7TH GEN AND BELOW INTEL BASED MOBO'S - **\
ASUS PRIME Z270-A
ASUS PRIME Z270-P
ASUS PRIME Z270-K
EVGA Z270 Stinger
MSI B150M ARCTIC
MSI B250M MICRO ATX (PRO OPT. BOOST EDITION)
***8TH GEN INTEL BASED MOBO'S - **\
EVGA Z370 FTW
GIGABYTE Z370XP SLI (Rev. 1.0)
MSI Z370 SLI PLUS
***AMD RYZEN BASED MOBO'S - **\
ASUS ROG STRIX B350-F GAMING
MSI B350 TOMAHAWK
MSI X370 GAMING PRO
ASROCK AB350M PRO4
Way too many to list, nothing but 4 & 8GB DDR4 sticks and unfortunately, none are ECC so it's not even worth mentioning/listing these unless someone reading this is willing to barter. At which time I'd be obliged to send an itemized list or see if I have what they're/you're specifically looking for.\
* ______________________ THERMAL APPLICATIONS/FANS - JUST FANS - BeQuiet -
Pure Wings 2 (80mm)
Pure Wings 2 (120mm)
Pure Wings 2 (140mm)
Silent Wings 3 PWM (120mm)
PoopBrown - NF-A20 PWM (200mm) Specifically for the BIG "CoolerMaster HAF XB EVO" Case
GREY - NF-P12 Redux - 1700RPM (120mm) PWM Corsair
Air Series AF120LED (120mm)
CPU COOLING SYSTEMS - NOCTUA -
NT-HH 1.4ml Thermal Compound
NH-D15 6 Heatpipe system (this thing is the tits)
EVGA (Extremely crappy coding in the software here, I'm like 99.99% these will be problematic if I were to try and use in any OS outside of Windows, because they barely ever work in the intended Windows as it is).
CLC 240 (240mm Water-cooled system
Cryorig C7 Cu (Low-Profile Copper Edition*)
A few other oversized CPU cooling systems I forget off the top of my head but a CPU cooler is a CPU cooler after comparing to the previous 3 models I mentioned. I almost exclusively am using these amazing "Innovation Cooling Graphite Thermal Pads" as an alternative to thermal paste for my CPU's. They're not cheap but they literally last forever.
NZXT - Sentry Mesh Fan Controller
______________________ POWER SUPPLIES (PSU's) -
BeQuiet 550W Straight Power 11 (GOLD)
750P2 (750W, Platinum)
850P2 (850W, Platinum)
750T2 (750W, TITANIUM - yeah baby, yeah)
Quark 750W Platinum
Quark 650W Platinum
Focus 750W Platinum
______________________ STORAGE -
HGST Ultrastar 3TB - 64mb Cache - 7200RPM Sata III (3.5)
4X Samsung 860 EVO 500GB SSD's
2X Team Group L5 LITE 3D 2.5" SSD's 480GB
2X WD 10TB Essential EXT (I'm cool with shucking)
+ 6X various other external HDD's (from 4-8TB) - (Seagate, WD & G-Drives)
Other accessories worth mentioning -
PCI-E to 4X USB hub-adapter (I have a dozen or so of these - might not be sufficient enough &/or needed but again, 'worth mentioning' in case I somehow ever run out of SATA & USB ports and have extra external USB HDD's. Although, I'm sure there would be better suited components if I get to that point that probably won't cost all that much).
Needless to say, I have at least 1X of everything mentioned above. In most all cases, I have multiples of these items but obviously won't be needing 2X CPU's, Cases, etc...
Naturally, I have GPU's. Specifically;
At least 1X of every. Single. NVIDIA GTX 1070 TI (Yes, I have every variation of the 1070 ti made by MSI, EVGA and Zotac. The only brand I don't have is the Gigabyte line. My partners have terrible experience with those so I didn't even bother. I'm clearly not going to be needing a GPU for this build but again, I'm cool with discussing the idea of a barter if anyone reading this is in the market for one.
I also have some GTX 1080 TI's but those are already spoken for, sorry.
It's my understanding that select CPU's I have on this list are ECC Friendly and AFAIK, only 1 of my MOBO's claims to be ECC Friendly (The ASROCK AB350M PRO4), but for the life of me, I can't find any corresponding forums that confirm this and/or direct me to a listing where I can buy compatible RAM. Just the same, if I go w/ the ASROCK MOBO, that means I'd be using one of the Ryzens. Those are DEF. power hungry little buggers. Not a deal-breaker, just hoping to find something a little more conservative in terms of TDP.
In closing, I don't really need someone to hold my hand with the build part as much as figuring out which motherboard, CPU and RAM to get. Then I'm DEFINITELY going to need some guidance on what OS is best for my desired purpose. If building 2X Rigs makes sense, I'm totally open to that as well... Rig 1 = EPIC NAS SYSTEM Rig 2 = EPIC PFSENSE (or the like) DEDICATED FIREWALL
Oh, I almost forgot... The current routers I'm using are...
1X Netgear Nighthawk 6900P (Modem + Router)
1X Netgear Nighthawk X6S (AC 4000 I believe - Router dedicated towards my personal devices - no IoT &/or Guests allowed on this one)
1X TP-Link Archer C5 (Router). Total overkill after implementing the Nighthawks but this old beast somehow has the best range, plus it has 2X USB ports so for now, it's dedicated towards my IoT devices.
---- I also have a few other Wi-Fi routers (Apple Airport Extreme & some inferior Netgear's but I can only allocate so many WiFi Routers to so many WiFi channels w/out pissing off my neighbors) On that note, I have managed to convince my neighbors to let me in their house/WiFi configuration so we all have our hardware locked on specific, non-competing frequencies/channels so everyone's happy. :)
Please spare me the insults as I insulted myself throughout this entire venture. Part of why I did this was because when I was a kid, I used to fantasize about building a 'DREAM PC' but could never afford such. To compensate for this deficiency, I would actually print out the latest and greatest hardware components on a word document, print the lists up & tape to wall (for motivation). I was C++ certified at the age of 14 and built my first PC when I was 7. At the age of 15 I abandoned all hope in the sector and moved on to other aspirations. This entire ordeal was largely based off me finally fulfilling a childhood fantasy. On that note = mission accomplished. Now if I'm actually able to fulfill my desires on this post, I'm definitely going to feel less shitty about blowing so much money on all this stuff over the last couple years.
TIA for assisting in any way possible. Gotta love the internets!
THE END. :)
EDIT/UPDATE (5 hours after OP) - My inbox is being inundated with various people asking for prices and other reasonable questions about my hardware being up for sale. Not to be redundant but rather to expound on my previous remarks about 'being interested in a bartetrade' with any of you here...
I did say I was going to sell my gear on eBay in the near future, I also said I wanted to trade/barter for anything relative to helping me accomplish my OP's mission(s). I'm not desperate for the $$$ but I'm also not one of those people that likes to rip other people off. That said; I value my time and money invested in this hardware and I'm only willing to unload it all once I've established I have ZERO need for any of it here in my home first. Hence my writing this lengthy thread in an attempt to repurpose at least a grand or two I've already spent.
One of the most commonly asked questions I anticipate receiving from interested bodies is going to be "How hard were you on your hardware?" Contrary to what anyone else would have probably done in my scenario which is say they were light on it whether they were or weren't, I documented my handling of the hardware, and have no problem sharing such documentation with verified, interested buyers (WHEN THE TIME COMES) to offer you guys peace of mind.
I have photo's and video's of the venture from A-Z. I am also obliged to provide (redacted) electricity bill statements where you can correlate my photo's (power draw on each rig), and also accurately deduct the excess power my house consumed with our other household appliances. Even taking into consideration how much (more) I spent in electricity from keeping my house at a constant, cool 70-72F year-round (via my Nest thermostat). Even without the rigs, I keep my AC @ 70 when I'm home and for the last 1.5-2 years, I just so happened to spend 85% of my time here at my house. When I would travel, I'd keep it at 72 for my wife & kids.
Additionally; I had each GPU 'custom' oveunderclocke'd (MSI Afterburner for all GPU's but the EVGA's).*
I doubt everyone reading this is aware so this is for those that don't.... EVGA had the brilliant idea of implementing what they call "ICX technology" in their latest NVIDIA GTX GPU's. The short(est) explanation of this "feature" goes as follows:
EVGA GPU's w/ "ICX 9 & above" have EXTRA HEAT/THERMAL SENSORS. Unlike every other GTX 1070 ti on the market, the one's with this feature actually have each of 2/2 on-board fans connected to individual thermal sensors
. Which means - if you were to use the MSI Afterburner program on one of these EVGA's and create a custom fan curve for it, you'd only be able to get 1/2 of the fans to function the way intended. The other fan simply would not engage as the MSI Afterburner software wasn't designed/coded to recognize/ communicate with an added sensor (let alone sensor'S). This, in-turn, would likely result in whoever's using it the unintended way having a GPU defect on them within the first few months I'd imagine... Perhaps if they had the TDP power settings dumbed down as much as I did (60-63%), they might get a year or two out of it since it wouldn't run as near as hot, but I doubt any longer than that since cutting off 50% of the cooling system on one of these can't be ignored too long, surely capacitors would start to blow and who knows what else...
(Warning = RANT) Another interesting side-note about the EVGA's and their "Precision-X" OveUnderclocking software is that it's designed to only recognize 4X GPU's on a single system. For miners, that's just not cool. My favorite builds had 8X and for the motherboards that weren't capable of maintaining stable sessions on 8, I set up with 6X. Only my EVGA Rigs had 3 or 4X GPU's dedicated to a single motherboard. Furthermore, and as stated in an earlier paragraph, (& this is just my opinion) = EVGA SOFTWARE SUCKS! Precision X wasn't friendly with every motherboard/CPU I threw at it and their extension software for the CLC Close-Loop-Cooling/ CPU water-coolers simply didn't work on anything, even integrating into their own Precision-X software. The amount of time it took me to finally find compatible matches with that stuff was beyond maddening. (END RANT).
Which leads me to my other comments on the matter. That's what I had every single 1070 ti set at for TDP = 60-63%. Dropping the power load that much allowed me to bring down (on average) each 1070 ti to a constant 110-115W (mind you, this is only possible w/ "Titanium" rated PSU's, Platinum comes pretty damn close to the Titanium though) while mining Ethereum and was still able to maintain a bottom of 30 MH/s and a ceiling of 32 MH/s. Increasing the TDP to 80, 90, 100% or more only increased my hashrates (yields) negligibly, like 35-36 MH/s TOPS, which also meant each one was not only pulling 160-180W+ (Vs. the aforementioned 115'ish range), it also meant my rigs were creating a significantly greater amount of heat! Fortunately for the GPU's and my own personal habits, I live in South Florida where it's hot as balls typically, last winter was nothing like this one. Increasing my yields by 10-15% didn't justify increasing the heat production in my house by >30%, nor the added electricity costs from subjecting my AC handlers to that much of an extra work-load. For anyone reading this that doesn't know/understand what I'm talking about - after spending no less than 2-3 hours with each. and. every. one. I didn't play with the settings on just one and universally apply the settings to the rest. I found the 'prime' settings and documented them with a label-maker and notepad. Here's the math in a more transparent manner:
*** I NEVER LET MY GPU's BREACH 61C, EVER. Only my 8X GPU rigs saw 60-61 & it was the ones I had in the center of the build (naturally). I have REALLY high power fans (used on BTC ASIC MINERS) that were sucking air from those GPU's which was the only way I was able to obtain such stellar results while mining with them. **\
Mining at "acceptable" heat temps (not acceptable to me, but most of the internet would disagree = 70C) and overclocking accordingly brings in X amount of yields per unit. =
'Tweaking' (underclocking) the GPU's to my parameters reduced my yield per unit from -10-15%, but it SAVED me well over 30-35% in direct electricity consumption, and an unknown amount of passive electricity consumption via creating approximately 20%+ less heat for my AC handler to combat.
I say all this extra stuff not just for anyone interested in mining with their GPU's, but really to answer (in-depth) the apparent questions you people are asking me in PM's. Something else that should help justify my claims of being so conservative should be the fact I only have/used "Platinum and Titanium" rated PSU's. Heat production, power efficiency and longevity of the hardware were ALWAYS my top priority.* . I truly thought Crypto would continue to gain and/or recover and bounce back faster than it did. If this project had maintained positive income for 12 months+, I'd have expanded one of our sites to also cater to GPU mining on a gnarly scale.
Once I have my NAS (& possibly 2nd rig for the firewall) successfully built, I'll be willing/able to entertain selling you guys some/all of the remaining hardware prior to launching on eBay. If there's something you're specifically looking for that I listed having, feel free to PM me with that/those specific item(s). Don't count on an immediate response but what you can count on is me honoring my word in offering whoever asks first right of refusal when the time comes for me to sell this stuff. Fortunately for me, PM's are time-stamped so that's how I'll gauge everyone's place in line. I hope this extra edit answers most of the questions you guys wanted to have answered and if not, sorry I guess. I'll do my best to bring light to anything I've missed out on after I realize whatever that error was/is. The only way anyone is getting first dibs on my hardware otherwise is if they either offer compelling insight into my original questions, or have something I need to trade w/.
THE END (Round#2)
Uh, I’m Marketing Specialist (Guerrilla)
I’m so glad you brought this up! It’s the one thing that LTC lacks in and it’s ironic because LTC is the only coin deserving of a full-time marketing team. I think people are starting to finally realize that it’s all about the marketing, word of mouth and branding in crypto. To put this into perspective as a self-funded/semi-retired internet entrepreneur, I’ll tell you exactly what caused my successes and failures. Initially (when I was young), I would launch a service or product in which I used 90% of the budget for development and 10% left over for marketing resulting in failure. At this point if I ever launch a new product or service online 70%+ of the entire budget would be allocated towards the marketing, so I can’t stress the importance of this. 1 million CNY ($150k) applied to a dev team is absolutely incredible, but LTC desperately needs a monthly marketing budget as well. It would be fantastic if these Scrypt mining manufactures or farms could consider that expense the cost of doing business. $5k a month starting budget could really do wonders for creating awareness.
You can see here that we desperately need to address this issue: (sleeping giant) https://www.google.com/trends/explore?q=litecoin
There’s really no need for a DM regarding the marketing unless someone is brought on to manage a campaign, but I would like to give feedback publicly on what I’ve seen so far (since I’m all about community/transparency and appreciate feedback). I can be very direct and hurt people’s feelings, but the only thing that matters is the success of LTC for the sake of humanity (financial freedom from total economic enslavement), so here are my thoughts below.
1.) Current Slogan. I’d like to first go over the silver analogy since Xinxi mentioned it earlier in a reddit post. Right off the bat there are pros and cons that I see with this association.
Pros: During a BTC pump breaking ATH’s it is very beneficial being known as the Silver to Bitcoin’s gold as we’ve already seen demonstrated with the pump in late 2013. People feel that they missed the BTC boat and turn to an alternative that is underpriced and somewhat similar to BTC. Bitcoin paves the infrastructure path while Litecoin trails behind receiving all the benefits, such as the hardware wallet support. It positions Litecoin as a “non-threating” alternative to Bitcoin and acts as a logical trading pair. If you like BTC, then theoretically you should like LTC as well. The Bitcoin association to a digital gold is very powerful because many cultures still understand it as a monetary metal throughout history. I remember in 2011 the BTC community was really pushing that deep psychological comparison. In 2013, Bitcoin hit parity with gold reaching $1,200 and LTC at $48 which is also very similar to what we saw with physical silver. That was not by accident, but now that BTC has hit that objective I don’t hear thought leaders comparing it too gold much anymore and they claim one Bitcoin will be worth 1 million dollars feeding into that gold fever hype. The other issue with changing silver analogy is that Coblee literally designed LTC to be the silver to Bitcoin’s gold and produced 4x more inflation. LTC is also deflationary similar to gold, silver and Bitcoin so logically I guess it only makes sense. PM comparison takes a very complicated concept and helps simplify it for your average man on the street.
Cons: What I don’t like about the silver association. So I believe most here will agree that Gold feels like it’s more important/sought after than Silver. Considering historically kings have access to gold and commoners have access to the silver. I do believe it’s hard for people to chant and cheer, “We’re #2, We’re #2, We’re #2!!!”. Do you see what I mean here? It’s hard to get Excited about that for people and the same goes with hoarding LTC vs BTC. It also creates a dependency on Bitcoin for eternity and keeps LTC under the thumb of the BTC overlords (I know some of them and they hate LTC). The association should be more like Pepsi and Coke or Ying to Yang and one could technically still operate without the other. If LTC dies (I doubt this), then people will forget about the silver association and just continue chanting for Bitcoin #1/Gold2.0/21 Million/I’m Rich Bitches. If BTC dies or is bottlenecked to death it would be nice for LTC to still exist in the minds of the crypto community and that dependence is also dangerous for LTC (as we keep seeing Bitcoins lack of scaling). You’ll notice every time BTC bottlenecks transactions that the price rally gets cut short again which affects the potential LTC rally. This is also a big part of why hedging out of BTC into alts such as LTC is important, but many think why would I hold LTC when I can just hold BTC so they invest in something totally different like ETH as a hedge. The other issue is the ratio and stability of LTC when the ratio both snaps back (short-term) and is suppressed (long-term), so it doesn’t make for the most stable currency when this occurs (although a 40x gain in value again would be nice). Many precious metal bugs will state that the physical gold/silver ratio should be around 1:16 ounces and technically if BTC/LTC had identical network-effect the value ratio would be closer to 1:4. Right now, we’re nearing 1:200 which is absurd. Not only that, this association is not so accurate because the gold and silver volume/ratio of atoms on this earth is unknown. While the tokens to exist currently and in the future are precisely known with BTC/LTC (1:4) which means LTC is actually even more undervalued than physical silver to physical gold. It would be nice to talk about LTC without ever having to mention BTC and I do feel it’s a setback, but at this point maybe necessary especially considering this next BTC pump.
2.) Slogan Suggestion. As you can see I am really on the fence about the silver analogy, so maybe we can just leave it as an unspoken association as we seen Bitcoiners mentioning gold analogy less and less. The funny thing is Coblee and Xinxi totally changed the game with LTC while nobody noticed. It’s so different that I almost think this one change alone has put the silver branding into question. By adding CT transactions and Segwit it provides enough differentiation from BTC to make it a more worthwhile hedge for wealth storage (This is important and helps maintain a higher per coin price). For those that want to save their earnings in a more private blockchain they now have a reason to transfer some BTC over to LTC or bypass it as a means of storage and we already know it’s much better for transfer. Coblee states fungiblity reasons, but I already know people will be taking a second look at LTC after this is implemented because I personally don’t like when people can see all my transactions at a particular address, so having both a fully public and private blockchain is a must. Not only that he knows about the censoring of coins for associations with the dark web even if you weren’t directly involved and that hurts fungibility, so once again the right decisions are being made.
With that said, I would personally prefer LTC being considered the “The Swiss Bank of Money”. Money and Currency are actually two VERY different things by the way while gold/silver being money and currency being a derivative of that money. Obama was recently at South by Southwest and gave a speech mentioning crypto directly. It would be hilarious if we embraced his terminology of crypto. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsDijAoxG9g
“It’s like having a Swiss Bank Account in Your Pocket.”
Another interesting point is the ironclad privacy that Swiss Banks were known for has been completely undermined by the US probing and global FATCA compliance for all other banks globally. There is no safe haven anymore and in a subtle way this almost alludes to LTC being the last bastion of financial freedom. Picture this, but instead LTC: http://i.imgur.com/yrQYmxO.jpg
(The financial system is being completely turned upside down with some countries going to negative interest rates… AKA you pay them for holding your money, so that picture is very accurate.)
3.) Litecoin Constitution or Oath. I will eventually get to the marketing aspect, but this all ties into everything, such as word of mouth. Every great company has a motto, a country a constitution or religions with commandments. It is important because it condenses down why we are here, our beliefs, what we are fighting for, our principles and what is out of scope of the vision or deemed acceptable. We’ve seen glimpses of this from Coblee like when he mentioned after an altcoin forked due to a theft that LTC will never hardfork due to a theft (So, let’s outline it for everyone). This is so important that I could even see a URL being dedicated to it so the world is clear as too what LTC is and stands for.
An example of what this would look like: Litecoin Beliefs/Oath: - LItecoin will strive to be as transparent as possible in all aspects of development, marketing, future updates. - Litecoin will strive to remain as decentralized as possible while maintaining a pristine blockchain. All aspects of management for social media and other platforms will also remain decentralized. - Litecoin will never reverse or roll back the blockchain or fork due to a theft or unauthorized transaction. - Litecoin will strive to operate the most financially fair network of wealth storage and transfer as possible. - Litecoin will always strive to bring modern financial access from the richest to the poorest and most remote people on earth. - ETC ETC.
Something like this needs to be in place in the event Charlie goes MIA or anyone else in management so we have our guide stone in place. A wealthy individual looking to speculate in LTC and store his wealth there would feel much more comfortable if he knew what LTC stands for. The examples I gave above are how I perceive LTC but writing it in stone would make everything clear for everyone.
4.) Enthusiastic Keynote Speaker. While I love Charlie to death and he’s fighting the good fight it would be nice to see someone like an Andreas equivalent for LTC (English/Chinese speaker would be incredible). When I hear Andreas speak about BTC I literally get goosebumps and my faith/passion is restored in crypto because sometimes we get beat down when our family and friends can’t see the “lite”. While I believe Charlie should never stop spreading awareness at as many events as possible he doesn’t come off as being very confident and a bit shy (which is fine). What I would like to see is high energy, passion, excitement and a confidence in LTC that is unshakeable. Assume the sale man! Charlie observed BTC operating in the wild, made a few tweaks and somehow made a better version of it capable of more yet incredibly stable/functional (without the suspect Satoshi early miner stash). However, I do understand it being difficult to hype LTC when there is not much to talk about since BTC hit all the talking points and LTC was no different other than 4x. For the future we really need to stress the scalability and fungibility improvements.
5.) Thinking out of the box. Xinxi’s paper wallet suggestion if done on a grand scale could be quite massive for adoption despite how primitive it sounds. This is the type of thinking we need to bring LTC functionality/awareness to the masses. Get creative/think outside the box and reach out to the appropriate companies/visionaries or start a business (we need more entrepreneurs and now is the time to get involved and solidify your spot in the industry).
Some examples: a. In previous posts we discussed the paper wallets for LTC. If I were to walk up to any person on the street and explain to them that I had one LTC paper wallet in my hand worth $4 and I would be willing to sell it to them for $5 and explained it was rare and similar to Bitcoin (second largest), in addition hit $48 in the past and could happen again and BTC is currently at $780.. I guarantee I could sell them on the spot. That could literally be turned in a business model and scaled as one idea that seems silly, but with awesome potential.
b. Tonight I watched the unveiling of the new Tesla solar home roof in addition to the PowerWall 2 unit. Seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRqSkR4ENAg
Who’s to say we couldn’t contact Tesla and integrate a Scrypt Asic chip into their future PowerWall 3 unit and offset homeowner’s extra battery power into the form of crypto. I mine BTC, LTC, DASH, ETH/ETC and LTC is by far the most profitable to mine, so maybe this actually could be viable. It’s out of the box and worth looking into from a technical standpoint. Coblee literally lives down the street and could meet with them.
c. Another idea could be a sidechain mobile mining concept. I’ve thrown that idea around with the LTC devs, just to see what their thoughts were. It would have to be structured in a very particular way to work, but I believe there could be some merit there as well to draw in new users. I would really love some feature to be offered through this additional hash/computational power via a sidechain and potentially something like a Dash masternode for the monthly yield since for some the simple buy and HODL method doesn’t work for them. LTC is supposed to be “money”, so monthly yield is inappropriate similar to how gold doesn’t produce monthly yield by its very nature.
5.) More Accessible Scrypt Miners. It looks like Alcheminer is gone and Titans are no longer obtainable leaving really only Innosilicons terminators older ones and the newer ones coming. It would be nice if we had more affordable smaller miners for your average joe. GPU dominates the word of mouth aspect because of accessibility. Any gamer can get involved, he gets a few coins and then tells his friends being that there is also financial incentive for him to spread awareness. It would be great if we could see more scrypt manufactures producing something to fill this niche.
6.) Localbitcoins.com equivalent. I don’t want to offend anyone again, but the litecoinlocal.net website really does need work. Aesthetically it doesn’t look as visually appealing as LBC and also does not function as well. The .net extension is also not so favorable, so maybe they could acquire a .com equivalent and 301 it. In addition, I see little to no available trades which also does not bode well on the psyche of potential LTC investors. LBC is really a major backbone to Bitcoin adoption considering its functionality for the community and allows people to buy BTC in a more anonymous fashion. Plus, the owner of LBC makes great profit so there is much incentive for running a high caliber local exchange.
7.) Marketing. There really is no marketing for LTC and I’ve never seen any marketing efforts on behalf of the LTC association other than maybe some sponsored ads on reddit (which is fine). This really does need to change because when we saw Dogecoin doing the Nascar stuff or Jamaican bob sled team, I was thinking my god why can’t we get a budget going to spread awareness. While I believed even at the time that their particular choices were foolish I was impressed that they were actually trying to bring about public awareness for Doge. We can maintain interactions on all the social profiles we want in the world, but we really need to be paying for ad placement on networks such as YouTube, Facebook, Reddit, Twitter, etc etc. A/B split testing with a test budget would be wise and gauge interaction via a landing page.
Side note: It’s funny one of my first projects when I was a kid was a penny stock newsletter site accessible via monthly subscription. We ran ads that were very professional and reasonable such as “Join our newsletter and receive monthly returns up to 20%-30%”. At the time that was very reasonable and realistic based on our track record/advice. The only problem was the ads performed horribly, but then eventually we said screw it and ran ridiculous ads like, “GAINZ of 30000X, GET RICH, GET BITCHES, LIVE ON BEACH IN PARADISE”…. And it worked almost too well. This tells me humans react off greed and dreams of grandeur. I see these claims with altcoins that get pumped which claims of “next Bitcoin” or will “overthrow Bitcoin”. I think that’ more sensational for most people and fills their dreams of becoming rich overnight. There’s those types of people and then there are the more ideological type like we see in the BTC community such as miners that will continue to mine at a loss because they believe so strongly in BTC or the HODLRS that won’t sell even when BTC loses half its value in 48 hours and people are shitting their pants. It would be nice if we could appeal to all demographics.
I keep hearing about the LTC Association meetings. Why don’t we publicly post the meeting day/time do it via Google Hangouts so we can all listen in on the conversation. We really need to build a sense of community and that’s lacking as well. Outreach programs could also be a very inexpensive form of marketing. Such as contacting Twitch.tv for potential integration of LTC. If the fundamentals were explained I’m sure there would be successes in furthering adoption of the technology.
If the Litcointalk.org website is not going to get fixed can we at least 301 it to the litecointalk.io address for now? Seeing "Hacked" at the top of the site doesn't instill confidence again... Not so great for branding... lol
… to be continued.
I’m starting to ramble. It’s 3am here and I’m half asleep. I’ll continue writing more on potential marketing efforts/ideas I’ve had (tomorrow).
In the meantime, I’ve love to hear feedback on things I’ve shared so far.
TL:DR: Don't bother mining if you want to get rich yo. You're way too late to the party.
Welcome to the exciting and often stressful world of bitcoin! You are wondering what looks like a once in a lifetime opportunity to get rich quick. Of course you guys probably heard about this "mining" process but what is this?
Simply put, a bitcoin mining machine that performs complicated calculations and when deemed correct by the network, receives a block which contains 25 bitcoins (XBT). This is how bitcoins are generated. So your brain instantly thinks, "Holy shit, how can I get on this gold rush?"
Before you proceed further, I would like to explain the concept of mining further. Bitcoin is limited 21m in circulation. It is coded to release a certain number of blocks at a certain time frame, ie: this year the network will release close to 500,000 bitcoins. What this means is that the more people (or specifically the amount of mining power) mine, the less each person gets. The network tries to keep to this time frame through the process of difficulty adjustments which makes the calculations harder and this happens every 2 weeks. So every 2 weeks, you get less bitcoins with the same hash rate (mining power) based on what the difficulty changes are. Recently, the changes have been pretty staggering, jumping 226% in 2 months. You can see the difficulty changes here
Now, why are these changes so large?
A bit of a simple history. Bitcoin's algorithm runs on SHA-256. This algorithm can be solved using many hardware, from CPU to GPU and dedicated hardware (Application Specific Integrated Circuits). When bitcoin first started, mining on CPU was a trivial process, you can pretty much earn 50 XBT (the block size then) every few hours between Q1 and Q2 of 2010.
In late 2010, due to the difficulty increase that is reducing the effectiveness of CPU mining, people started to harness GPU mining. Only AMD GPU's architecture design are better optimized for bitcoin mining so this is what the community used. Immediate improvements of more than 10x was not uncommon.
In time of course, GPUs reached their limit and people started to build dedicated. In the same vein as the CPU to GPU transition, similar performance increase was common. These ASICs can only perform SHA-256 calculation so they can be highly optimized. Their performance mainly depends on the die size of the chips exactly like CPU chips.
In general, think of bitcoin mining's technological advancement no different to mining gold. Gold panning (CPUs) vs pickaxes (GPUs) vs machinery (ASICs) and we are still in the ASIC mining race.
ASIC mining started with ASICMiner and Avalon being first to the market, both producing 130nm and 110nm chips. The technology are antiquated in comparison to CPUs and GPUs which are now 22nm with 14nm slated for Q1 next year by Intel but they are cheap to manufacture and with performance gains similar to the CPU to GPU transition, they were highly successful and popular for early adopters. At that point in time since there were less competing manufacturers and the low batch runs of their products, miners became really rich due to the slow increase in difficulty.
The good days came to an end mid August with an unprecedented 35% increase in difficulty. This is due to existing manufacturers selling more hardware and many other players coming onto the market with better hardware (smaller die). Since die shrinking knowledge and manufacturing process are well known along with a large technological gap (110nm vs 22nm), you get an arms race. Current ASIC makers are closing in on our technological limit and until everyone catches up, the difficulty jumps will be high because it is just too easy to get a performance increase. Most newer products run at 28nm and most chips are not well optimized, so it will be around another 6 to 9 months before we see hit a hard plateau with 22nm or 14nm chips. The estimated time frame is because manufacturing chips at 22nm or 14nm is a more difficult and expensive task. In the meantime most manufacturers will probably settle at 28nm and we will reach a soft plateau in about 3 months.
Now, you might ask these questions and should have them answered and if you have not thought about them at all, then you probably should not touch bitcoin until you understand cause you are highly unprepared and probably lose lots of money.
- I read that you can mine with a CPU/GPU, should I do so?
No. If you have to ask, please do not touch bitcoin yet. You will spend more on electricity cost than mining any substantial bitcoin. Seriously. At all. A 7990 would produce a pitiful 0.02879 XBT (USD $14 @ $500/XBT exchange rate) for the next 30 days starting 23 Nov 2013 at 35% difficulty increase.
And if you think you can mine on your laptop either on a CPU or GPU, you are probably going to melt it before you even get 0.01 XBT.
- I get free electricity and I have existing hardware, should I still mine?
Probably not because you probably forgot that GPUs and CPUs produce a ton of heat and noise. You can try but I see no point earning < $20 bucks per month.
- Should I buy an ASIC machine?
No, because your machine will probably not mine as much as buying bitcoins. This situation is called the opportunity cost. While you can still make money if XBT rise in value, it is a fallacy.
IE: if you start mining on 1 Dec 2013, a KnC Jupiter running at 450Gh/sec (KnC lies as not all chips run at 550Gh/sec) will yield you a total revenue of 9.5189 XBT with a profit of 0.7859 XBT in profit by 30th Jan 2014 at a constant difficulty increase of 35%. The opportunity cost is: 8.5910 XBT @ USD $580/XBT with USD $5,000 which is the cost of a KnC Jupiter. This is the best you can earn and it's a bloody optimistic assumption because:
The only circumstances where you will earn money is when XBT exchange rates is so high that it makes the opportunity cost pales in comparison. Unfortunately this is not the case. If XBT stabilized at 900/XBT today (20 Nov 2013) then we might have a good case.
- You are assuming your pre-order will arrive on time. (I do not think any first batch pre-order from any manufacturer has arrived on time).
- All pre-orders are sold out for 1 Dec.
- You are assuming your chips will run at 450Gh/sec minimum but many miners here will tell you their chips have been under performing.
- Electricity cost have not been taken into account.
- Shipping cost and time has not been taking into account.
- Import Tax or VAT has not been taken into account.
- Risk of downtime due to DOA or warranties has not been taken into account.
- You are assuming the difficulty increase will be a constant 35% which is very unlikely because Cointerra with a team that has worked on some of the world’s highest performance CPUs, GPUs and chipsets for NVIDIA, Intel, Samsung, Qualcomm and Nortel has pre-sold an absurd amount of hash rate. Difficulty increase of 45% or more (which we have seen when a small player, KnC shipped their 1st batch) will be repeated commonly. This is only 1 company, imagine what the rest will come out with. I have failed repeatedly and so have many in estimating future hashrate. You wont be able to do better.
- Even if you earn some profit, it will be < 15% and will probably be not worth your risk or your trouble. I can buy and hold XBT with no risk of losing them.
The risk is just generally not worth it. Unless you have at least a hundred thousand and can make a contract with a manufacturer for a lower cost, do not bother. Just wait until the arms race is over then you can start mining.
- I understand I probably won't earn any money, I just want to do this for fun/hobby...
Okay, go buy an AsicMiner USB Block Erupter. They are cheap and pretty fun to have.
- I want something with more omph and still do not mind losing money
Sure, just read the answer below on who NOT to go for. You are doing bitcoin a service by securing the network and you have our (the users') gratitude.
- Who are the manufacturers?
You can check out the manufacturers and their products below along with a calculator here.
If you still insist on buying, do not to go for BFL. Their track record is horrid and borderline scammish. KnC fucked up a lot with defective boards and chips. Personally, I think CoinTerra is the best choice.
Alternatively, you can go on the secondary market to buy a delivered product. You can get a better deal there if you know how to do your "return on investment (ROI)" calculation. Personally, I will go for a 45%-50% difficulty increase for the next 3 months for my calculations and a 2% pool fee.
However, most products on ebay are sold at a cost much higher than it should. bitcointalk.org is a cheaper place because everyone knows what are the true value is so you will find less options. If you are unclear or need assistance, please post a question.
I actually do not use any of the pools recommended to the left because I think they lack features.
My favourite is Bitminter (Variable fees based on features used; max 2%). It has all advanced features for a pool, very responsive and helpful owner on IRC. Variable fees is good for those who do not need a large feature set, even with all features turned on, it is still cheap.
Eligius (0% fees) has high value for money but lacks features. It has anonymous mining which might be attractive to certain subset of people but not for others. Many other community member and I disagree highly with the opinions of the owner on the direction of bitcoin. I do use his pool for now but I do so only because I share my miners with a few partners and anonymous mining allows us to monitor the machines without using an account. Bitminter uses only OpenID which is problematic for me.
BTC Guild (3% fees) is another big pool and is fully featured and does charge a premium for their fees. That said, they are the most stable of the lot. I do use them but do so only because my hoster uses them for monitoring. I try not to use them because a pool with a very large hash rate (they are the largest) presents a large vulnerability to bitcoin's network if compromised.
All of them pay out transaction fees.
Despite the rising popularity of ASIC chips, which even managed to elbow Nvidia out of the crypto market, GPU mining remains fairly popular, especially with regard to altcoins. However, there are still many doubts about whether mining puts a graphics card at risk. There is a common belief that hardware becomes disposable after a certain period of time. However, there is no evidence to prove ... Basically, an ASIC is solely a bitcoin mining machine. Whereas with GPUs, a significant amount of them come from gaming rigs that are mining in their off time or casual miners with a rig or two. When profitability gets low, gamers stop mining and casual miners sell their GPUs to gamers. Which means when the going gets tough, things get easier for the GPU miners that stick with it, because a ... Lastly, other methods of mining bitcoin using USB ASIC mining and home-grade bitcoin mining equipment can’t be considered serious mining and are categorized as a hobby only. They will not really make money doing this and the learning process on how to mine cryptocurrencies is not as intensive. It would be cheaper and intellectually gratifying to use GPU or CPU mining as you do not need ... Accurate Bitcoin mining calculator trusted by millions of cryptocurrency miners since May 2013 - developed by an OG Bitcoin miner looking to maximize on mining profits and calculate ROI for new ASIC miners. Updated in 2020, the newest version of the Bitcoin mining calculator makes it simple and easy to quickly calculate mining profitability for your Bitcoin mining hardware. List of Best Bitcoin Cloud Mining Sites (updated as of 25 January 2020) When investing in bitcoins, one needs to consider finding reliable websites to mine bitcoins in the cloud and generate cryptocurrencies periodically and safely.The problem with this type of investment is making a decision and betting on a site where cryptocurrencies won’t be in danger of disappearing overnight.
Today's source shows us the new Innosilicon A10 ASIC miner for Ethereum. As the price, performance and power usage was shown on the presentation, i decided t... VoskCoin livestream on the Outlook on Cryptocurrency Mining - GPU vs ASIC vs FPGA with Q&A. Text version of todays video - http://bit.ly/2LaZA5R -- The lands... Which is more profitable between GPU and Asic Mining in 2019? Both GPU rigs and Asic miners are heavily overpriced due to the fact that so many people want to get into Cryptocurrency mining. Is GPU mining still worth it? Is GPU mining profitable in 2020?! We review GPU mining profitable and the best graphics cards for mining in 2020 along with CP... In this video I take a look at Bitcoin mining hardware. I compare the performance and power usage between BFL SC ASIC vs FPGA vs GPU (Nvideo GTX 560 Ti and AMD ATI Radeon HD 8950) vs CPU (Intel ...